The Gentiles Lording It Over

Wade Burleson has hit the nail squarely on the head with this post:

 our-problem-is-authoritarianism-and-not legalism

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The Forgotten Man

As soon as A observes something which seems to him to be wrong, from which X is suffering, A talks it over with B, and A and B then propose to get a law passed to remedy the evil and help X. Their law always proposes to determine what C shall do for X, or in the better case, what A, B and C shall do for X....

What I want to do is to look up C. I want to show you what manner of man he is. I call him the Forgotten Man. Perhaps the appellation is not strictly correct. He is the man who is never thought of....

He works, he votes, generally he prays....but he always pays....

--William Graham Sumner

Yale University, 1883

Toxicity

When concern over abusive and unbiblical church leaders at least equals concern over gossip, it will be progress. One of the reasons abusive leaders are able to continue on so long is that they suppress the cries of the injured and shove the victims out into the night as quickly as possible. Pietists are trained to look the other way for the sake of the “cause of Christ” when in fact, Christ’s cause is very much with the wronged, the abused and the injured. The cause of Christ is not keeping big names from being tarnished, it is found in truth.  ~Ingrid Schlueter

HT: http://www.ingridschlueter.com/shows

1 Timothy 5 – “Older Women” or “Elderesses”?

My good blogging friend, Junkster, sent me this study after he was inspired by a comment of Dr. James Willingham's in this SBCVoices post, to take a deeper look at 1 Timothy 5. He gave me persmission to post it here:

In an interlinear translation of 1 Timothy 5:1-2, we have these interesting verses:

5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
(Presbuterw mh epiplhchv, alla parakalei wv patera, newterouv wv adelfouv,)

5:2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
(presbuterav wv mhterav, newterav wv adelfav en pash agneia.)

The context of 1 Tim 5:1-22 is a set of instructions for relating to various people in the church -- elder males, younger males, elder females, younger females, elder widows, younger widows, all summarized in the instruction in 5:21 to "observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality." Thus the passage is providing instructions for fair treatment of all in the body, whether old, young, male, or female, while recognizing and acting according to the unique needs and circumstances of each. We may do different things with or toward different people, but we are not to elevate some over others just because of their gender and/or age.

Verses 1 & 2 give the instruction to entreat (rather than rebuke) various people. Verse one deals with entreating "elders" (presbutero, the singular masculine form of presbuteros, which we are to entreat "as a father") and then younger men ("as brothers"); verse two gives the same instruction for "elder women" (presbuteras, the plural feminine form of presbuteros, whom we are to entreat "as mothers"), and then younger [women] ("as sisters").

Given the parallel construction of these two verses, the appropriate translation should be consistent. One could either translate presbutero as "elder men" (referring not to the concept of a specific church function, but just to "old dudes") and presbuteras as "elder women" (referring to "old ladies"). Alternatively, one could translate the former as "male elders" (referring to the church function) and the latter as "female elders".

Well, now, that changes things a bit, huh?

The question of which way the words should be translated, either "old men” and “old women", or "male elders” and “female elders", cannot be discerned from those two verses alone. But the rest of the passage gives insight into the appropriate translation -- in instructions regarding "widows" (chera) in verses 3-16, and in further instructions regarding elders in verses 17-22.

The instructions regarding "widows" in verses 3-16 indicate some sort of formal recognition by the church of specific individuals that fall into that category. Reference is made to "the list" ("the number" in KJV), which is katalego, referring specifically to some sort of registry used to keep track of people (also used of enlisted soldiers elsewhere). In this passage, the list is to be used to keep track of who should and should not receive direct support from the contributions made to the church. Thus Paul uses "widows" to refer to individuals who have a specific designation within the church, including what functions those persons are to perform in the church (prayer, good deeds, service to others, etc.).

In verses 17-22, Paul comes back to elders, first giving instructions to provide "double honor" to those who "direct the affairs of the church" ("rule well" in the KJV, a poor translation) and then giving instructions on how to deal with an accusation against an elder -- not to be done except "before two or three witnesses". (The KJV translation, which, by the way, is a better translation in this case than the NIV, which says "brought by two or three witnesses." Translated correctly, the instruction is, if you are going to listen to someone making an accusation against an elder, there need to be others present to hear the accusation, not that the accusation has to come from more than one person. Big difference.) Also, verse 22 refers to the “laying on of hands”, the normal way of indicating that someone is being prayed over to be set apart for a specific task or function in the church.

So we see that both "widows" and "elders", in context, are specific designations, filling specific functions in the body. The overall context of the passage is dealing with relating to those who have those specific, designated functions in the church.

Thus, we can conclude that "elder' in verse one is not referring just to a man of advanced age, but to the concept of one who fills the church function of elder. And, if we use sound principles of translation, the correct translation in 5:2 should then be "elderesses" or "female elders".

One of the things we can see from this is that the KJV translators (and most since) had a vested interest in maintaining the hierarchical status quo, and they allowed their own cultural biases and assumptions to influence their translations.

There's no good reason to translate presbuteras in 5:2 as "elder women" unless you are trying to avoid the conclusion that the Bible indicates that both men and women can be elders.

Mark Driscoll: I See Things

Video Transcript:

Some people actually see things. This may be gift of discernment. On occasion, I see things. I see things. Uh, like I was meeting with one person and they—they didn't know this, but they were abused when they were a child. And I said, "When you were a child you were abused. This person did this to you, physically touched you this way."



He said, "How do you know?"



I said, "I don't know. It's like I got a TV right here. I'm seeing it."



He said, "No that never happened."



I said, "Go ask him. Go ask him if they actually did what I think they did and I see that they did."



They went and asked this person, "When I was a little kid did you do this?"



And the person said, "Yyyyeah, but you were only like a year or two old. How do you remember that?"



He said, "Well, pastor Mark told me."



I'm not a guru. I'm not a freak. I don't talk about this. If I did talk about it everybody'd want to meet with me and I'd end up like one of those guys on TV. But some of you have this visual ability to see things.



Um, uh, there was one women I dealt with. She never told her husband that she had committed adultery on him early in the relationship. I said, "You know—" (she's sitting there with her husband). I said, "You know I think the root of all this—I think Satan has a foothold in your life because you've never told your husband about that really tall blonde guy that you met at the bar. And then you went back to the hotel. And you laid on your back. And you undressed yourself. And he climbed on top of you. And you had sex with him. And snuggled up with him for a while. And deep down in your heart, even though you had just met him, you desired him because secretly he is the fantasy body type." I said, "You remember that place it was that cheap hotel with that certain-colored bedspread. You did it—you had sex with the light on because you weren't ashamed and you wanted him to see you. And you wanted to see him."



She was just looking at me like—



I said,"You know, it was about ten years ago.



"I see everything."



She says—she looks at her husband. He says, "Is that true?"



She says, "Yeah."



"He was 6'2", blonde hair, blue eyes?"



"Yeah."



Some of you when you're counseling you will see things. I mean you will, you will literally gift of discernment see things. I can't explain it. It doesn't happen all the time.



Sometimes your counselee, they will see things. Ye—eh—there's pa— I found this with people—ok, now let me—I'm gonna ask the demon questions. You tell me what they say."



"They don't say anything."



I say, "What do you hear?"



And they say, "Nothing." They say, "But I'm seeing stuff."



"Oh, oh, well tell me. What's that?"



"I'm seeing—you know when I was little my grandpa molested me. I didn't know that."



I said, "Well, let's not assume it's true. Go ask your grandfather."



Grandpa says, "Yyyeah, when you were little I molested you." Grandpa was assuming they'd be too young to remember. So he'd only molest grand kids up to a certain age. But they saw it.



It's the supernatural. It's, it's, it's the whole other realm. It's like the Matrix. You can take the blue pill, you take the red pill. You go into this whole other world. And, and, and that's the way it works.



So I say—tell me everything you hear, tell me everything you see. And sometimes I see things too. I see things too. I've seen women raped. I've seen children molested. I've seen people abused. I've seen people beaten. I've seen horrible things done. Horrible things done. I've seen children dedicated in occultic groups and demons come upon them as an infant by invitation. And I wasn't present for any of it, but I've seen it visibly.



Upon occasion when I get up to preach I'll see—just like a screen in front of me—I'll see somebody get raped or abused and then I'll track 'em down and say, "Look I had this vision. Let me tell you about it." All true. One I had—I was sitting in my office at the old, uh, Earl Building. This gal walks by. Nice gal, member of the church. This is when the church was small. And it's just like a TV was there and I saw the night before her husband threw her up against the wall, had her by the throat, was physically violent with her.



And she said, "That's it, I'm telling the pastors."



And he said, "If you do I'll kill you." He was a very physically abusive man.



She was walking by and I just saw it. It was like a TV. And I said, "Hey, come here for a second." I said, "Last night did your husband throw you up against the wall and have you by the throat, physically assault you and tell you if you told anyone he would kill you?"



And she just starts bawling. She says, "How did you know?"



I said, "Jesus told me."



I call the guy on the phone: "Hey, I need you to come to the office." Didn't give him any clue.



He comes in and I said, "Dude, what'd you do to your wife last night? Why'd you do this? Why'd you throw her up against the wall?"



And he gets very angry. They're sitting on the couch and he says, "Why did you tell him?"



I said, "She didn't. Jesus did. Jesus did."



. . . And there are some people that have real gift of discernment, and I'm not saying I'm a hundred percent always right with it, but some of you are going to have gift of discernment, and you need to—you need to learn to grow in the use of that gift. And sometimes people will hear things. Sometimes people will see things.

CJ Mahaney and SGM: The Systematic Approach to Sin Sniffing

(Note: I had to edit out some of the information due to counsel that warned me these guys don't play around and are starting to throw out charges of "slander". Even though what I wrote is cooberated elsewhere, I don't need the hassle. So, I simply edited out a specific sin/crime that is part of this whole saga of PDI/SGM)

http://www.scribd.com/sgmwikileaks (pack a lunch before reading)
http://sgmsurvivors.com/
http://sgmrefuge.com/
http://www.sojournsg.com/

Check out the links above for everything you need to know about SGM and C.J. Mahaney.

Now, before reading this post, take the red pill. If you are reluctant, all I can advise is to definitely take the red pill before reading the sgmwikileaks documents. You will thank me...someday.

Blue pills are still being administered all over Christendom as they have been for years to prop up evil systems. You will hear the ominous threats of "gossip" from religous leaders and their sycophants if you dare read the documents above. But don't feel guilty. Read them. Truth is important. Truth is not gossip.

Of course, some of us have long known there were serious systemic problems with CJ Mahaney and SGM. All one has to do is google (always do this before joining any movement or even your local church) and one finds, sgmsurvivors, sgmrefuge, my sojournwithsgm, etc, a veritable litany of what is wrong with SGM and a trail miles long littered with it's victims.

Just a few hours of reading the docs and you can pretty much tell it is a cult or cultish at the very least. But wait, how can it be a cult or cultish if Mohler, Dever, Duncan, Piper, etc, all vouch for SGM's leading "Apostle" C.J. Mahaney? The answer is that you have been taking blue pills for way too long so you missed the reality that Christendom has become a huge business full of power, fame,greed and lots of "merchandising" of the Gospel with conferences and "you blurb my book and I will blurb yours" going on. With power and celebrity being the main focus. None of this can go on for so long without followers giving their money and adoring the celebrities...even obeying them.

A few things struck me in the documents:

A long time leader in SGM (Brent) kept meticulous notes and documentation for over 13 years. He claims to be the unofficial historian of SGM.

This document guy is one of "them". Many of us are thankful he kept the documentation for so long but to be honest, he is one of them. He did not keep them to "out" SGM so much as to keep a list of sins to be confronted and timelines of how they were not confessed...or not confessed properly. He is like a relentless, annoying Nathan who is just as guilty as David but cannot see it.

He thought this was normal. SGM thinks this is normal. The entire leadership of SGM thinks this is normal. People who attend SGM churches think this is normal. This.... "sin sniffing".

Now, you may be thinking...wow! Sins such as embezzelment or adultery....no, my friend, it is much worse. The sins documented are things like pride, lack of being accountable, not having the proper reaction to a rebuke, etc....... ad nauseum.

Now, I had heard the term "sin sniffing" from former SGMers but I never really understood the depth of the terminology UNTIL I read the docs. It is unbelievable. These "men" have way too much time on their hands, way too much money and way too big of egos. They need to be rebuked. Just kidding. It is way too far far gone for that. That would be simply playing their game. Run away from them.

I am not so sure what is worse, the "sin sniffing" or the method of confrontation for the sin of having a "look of pride".

Every single confrontation is preceeded by a lot of cheesy "Christianese" such as, " I love you, you are a brother in Christ" and ends with praises to God. The Dale Carnegie approach to sin sniffing? Do they not see how fake it all sounds while they rip each other to shreds or ignore the glaring REAL sin that is never to be named? No, it is all vague and broad.

This is the system that CJ built. Our Lord is mentioned A LOT but no where in sight.

My first thoughts upon reading this were, 'This is what highly paid ministers in the top rungs of a large "family of churches" do with their time'? I am not joking when I say they sounded like Junior High girls trying to analyze each other and nit picking every action, every word. I had flashbacks!

And this went on for years....because it is the FOUNDATION of SGM. It was built on this sort of sin sniffing and it is universal in their "family of churches" . It was as if the Resurrection never happened for them. They did not get the indwelling Holy Spirit because they are stuck on a "pre Cross" religion.... living under a sort of "Christian" Oral Law they created and fine tuned just for their movement.

Now, as I am reading the docs, I am fully aware of how victims of sexual molestation were treated at SGM by their "pastor college" trained pastors...or are they apostles (little" a" because Mahaney is the big "A")? I was already aware of the trail of wounded from PDI (People of Destiny) to SGM before I read the docs.

Rabbit trail alert: Does anyone else find the name "People of Destiny" like a neon sign warning "cult ahead"? Good move changing the name, CJ. It gave you some breathing time before the cult methods were outed. I cannot picture Al Mohler partnering with an "Apostle" from the "People of Destiny", can you?

So, reading the docs,one stumbles upon "CJ the blackmailer".

But even before we get to the blackmail we see that CJ is quite good at what he does. Whenever he is confronted, he is very nice about it while he cleverly twists it around to make the other person confronting him the "real sinner". Very clever. Machiavelli would be proud. Too bad email was invented. If it had not been, this would be a simple matter of he said/he said and CJ would win by default as an "Apostle", big A.

Back to blackmail. Well, CJ was not demanding money so I am not sure blackmail is the right word. Perhaps "pastoral confidence hostage" is better. And this happened with his former partner and "brother in Christ", Larry Tomczak, in the PDI days. Well, actually he is using Larry's teenage son (at the time) as the hostage, to blackmail Larry.

CJ used a private pastoral confession as leverage to keep his former partner (Larry Tomzak) quiet about PDI/SGM going Calvinist. It is not easy to take Charismatics to Calvinism when you have promoted "prophecy mic's" and are speaking in tongues. Even being a "big A" Apostle does not quite fit with "going Calvinist". (They prefer the more acceptable term, "Reformed")

Here is the back story if you are too lazy or busy to slog through the 600 pages of documentation.

Larry's teenage son had some (edited out) sin in his life. And it was serious. It is not quite clear if it was ___ (edited out) or not but that seems to be the case since there was a victim. If it was, CJ should have called the authorities and at least acknowledged the victim. But we know SGM does not "do" victims who have suffered any molestation from their own. In fact, victims of sexual molestation are in sin for not giving instant forgiveness... as we know from Noel's story of her 3 year old being molested by another SGM'er. (google sgmsurvivors-noel's story and it is not the only sexual victim story from SGM and how it was handled)

Anywho, so CJ hears Larry's teenage son's confession and promises pastoral confidentiality. I am not clear on the details of what happened with the victim but CJ seems to have wrapped it all up nicely for Larry and his son and made the problem "go away".

Then CJ wants to make changes in the movement that Larry does not agree with.
So, CJ simply alludes (CJ never comes right out and says what he really means)
he will make the (edited out) sin stuff about Larry's son known if he does not go along or keep his mouth shut about them. Let us just say that Larry, his wife and some others in leadership think it was blackmail.

Larry and CJ split, PDI becomes the more acceptable name of SGM and PRESTO! a new brand of Reformers appear as Calvinists waving their hands in song and praying in tongues. Frozen Chosen? I think not. And like magic, we have a charistmatic wing of Calvinism in the New Reformed Movement that is sweeping our land.

CJ climbs his way up the Reformed elite ladder...acceptance by the big cheeses....Piper, Mohler, Dever, T4G, etc....becomes a player with book deals (one on Humility, no less!) and lots of speaking gigs. He is accepted into the Reformed elite, making big money and is quite popular. (They even had the grace to ignore his constant "giggling")

All the while, he has Brent (the author of the docs and unoffical SGM historian) dogging him...sin sniffing him. Email after email..... for years and years. Meeting after meeting with the "A" team. (If you can believe it...they have an A team. Let me guess...Apostle team?)

After all, this is the "shepherding" system CJ created. It had everything but the state magistrates Calvin had at his disposal. But who needs magistrates when you have apostles, care team leaders and brainwashed sycophants running all over SGM churches sin sniffing people? The Soviets could not have devised a better system of control. One blog commenter said the docs reminded him of reading the tactics of the Chinese under Mao, during the cultural revolution, where forced confession and re-education were everyday happenings.

But there was one tiny problem. CJ was not supposed to be a recipient of his own system.

This sin sniffing was only for everyone else. He is a big A Apostle, remember? Doesn't Brent realize this? No. Brent did not get that memo. In fact, Brent did not think the "unwritten" rules applied to him. He did not take into consideration that CJ is the brand. He IS SGM. He has the ear of Mohler, Dever, Piper, etc.

Big mistake, because they tried to fire Brent (forced resignation just like they do in the corporate world.) And remember, Brent is one of them. He has left a trail of wounded in his long career with PDI/SGM.

There is more but I will cut to the chase because the timeline becomes very interesting. And this is just in the last few weeks. SGM has been busy...I am sure their PR people and lawyers have earned their keep these few weeks. (Ken Sande, we see you in the shadows, buddy)

SGM announces,in house,that....SURPRISE!...after all these years....Larry is coming in for a man hug with CJ. Reconcilation and forgiveness all around after all these years. Larry will be coming to attend an SGM conference for pastors. Seems Larry did not just go quietly into that good night all those years before....there was a split. You mean the humble big A apostle had some baggage from way back? Not to worry, man hug announced and scheduled.

But we did not know the docs had been circulating around SGM tight circles for several months, now did we? Brings new light to the annoucement of the sudden Larry man hug after all these years.

Then shortly after THAT surprise announcment, CJ announces he is stepping down for a while to contemplate his sin and be accountable to Mark Dever (of T4G fame but not of SGM). Now, we find out that CJ knew the docs had been circulated to a "wider audience" by Brent right before CJ made his "stepping down for a while to contemplate my sin" announcement. Timing is everything, isn't it? Did you know you could time "humility"? You can. CJ proves it.

But, be rest assured, he is not stepping down "for a while" for any sexual or moral sins. Of course, to name the horrible sin that caused him to step down 'for a while'
would be wrong...yikes...more sin..because we know only they have the authority to define for us, what is sin.

No, we must leave people wondering because then we can nail them for the "sin of wondering" what the horrible sin was that caused this great man of God, Big A Apostle, to have to leave his dynasty for awhile and be accountable to another Reformed big cheese. We must trust our leaders. We must "trust positive intentions".

Quick, grab a blue pill before you wake up to reality!

Now, around the blogosphere in the zany world that is Christendom, he is being lauded as the most "humble-humble" pastor in all America" and anyone who reads the docs is only a gossip. Before, he was only "humble". Now, all of this proves he is: Double knot humble.

You cannot make this stuff up.

To paraphrase one blogger in a comment: I expect to see Mahaney to now miraculously discover GRACE. He will claim he has left out the GRACE in SGM. He will write a book about it and be more popular than ever. The celebrities will rally around him, (because they blurbed his books and had him speaking on their stages before he was double knot humble) bring him in to speak (for a fee, of course) on their conference stages. They will be "covered" in doing so by not only Larry, who came in for a man hug, but by Mark Dever's good housekeeping seal of approval for sin contrition. He will be a huge humble hero at T4G in Louisville. He might just steal the show. Giggles all around.

These guys are good at reinventing themselves and redefining sin.

See, sin pays well in American Christianity if you are a celebrity Christian. So, sin more because GRACE abounds. But NEVER be foolish enough to confess or acknowledge the REAL sin. Be vague about it. No specifics allowed. Have a "broad sin heading" You can even claim "acceptable" sins like "pride" and "arrogance".

The Holy Spirit always convicts us of "vague sin". Right?

Then, if anyone inquires, since you are a leader and your income derives from their support, you can use your title and position to say, "that is gossip" and you are in sin for wondering what my sin really is, specifically. Nevermind that I instituted the sin sniffing system for you to live by. I am exempt. I am a big A.

So, there you have it. Thousands of people have supported this system and found it credible...even after reading the New Testament and the part about the Resurrection.

But, I just had to to save the best for last. Because this is America and we have our own brand of Christianity. You see, Larry's son, (edited out) the teen raised in the legalistic sin sniffing shepherding system, is now running for poltical office!

Is that perfect or what?

Better get your script for blue pills filled soon.